Pulpit

A Firm Foundation

Charles W. Penrose, Member of the First Presidency

1916 October General Conference·First Day Afternoon Session·1916-10-06

"Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee." Yes. If there are any people in the world who enjoy more perfect peace than do the Latterday Saints I have not become acquainted with them, either personally or by investigation. We certainly should put our trust in the Lord, and I believe we do to a very large extent, and in that we find peace.

If we have had any doubts in regard to God, his personality and his will concerning his children, they were dissipated when we received the gospel revealed in the latter-days through the prophet Joseph Smith. Our feet have been placed upon the firm foundation. We know that God is the Lord, and we are perfectly satisfied, I believe, in the truth of the enunciation made by our President this morning, that the Father is a personage, not a mere spiritual imaginary breath, and that Jesus Christ of Nazareth, born of the Virgin Mary, is his only begotten Son in the flesh, and that we are made in their image, as revealed in scripture, both ancient and modern, and when we pray, we pray to him to whom Jesus Christ prayed, whom he taught his disciples to pray to as our Father in heaven, and to whom Adam prayed in the Garden of Eden and taught his children to pray to. This is made very clear in the book called the Pearl of Great Price, the word of the Lord given to Moses, also in the word of the Lord given, previously to that, to Enoch. These things are very clear and plain to us by the revelations given in the latter days through the prophet Joseph Smith ; and while we do not worship Joseph Smith, we do worship, with him, the great Eternal Father, the great Elohim, that Being spoken of by the psalmist when he said : "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty. He judgeth among the gods." Paul had reference to him when he said, there were "gods many, and lords many, both in heaven and on earth, but to us, there is one God, even the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ ;" and to them we pay adoration. We also pay homage in a large degree, or should do so, to the man chosen of God in the latter days, when he was but a boy, to begin to lay the foundations of the latter-day work, to represent the Lord in the ushering in of "the dispensation of the fullness of times." My heart goes out to him when we sing "Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah! Jesus anointed that prophet and seer, Blessed to open the last dispensation, Kings shall extol him and Nations revere." While Brother Tony Lund, this morning, was singing the beautiful song, composed by President John Taylor, who partly suffered martyrdom with the prophet, "The seer, the seer, Joseph the seer!" every word and every tone went into my heart ; and there is a peculiarity about this to me : From the very first time I read anything about Joseph Smith, when I was but a boy, there seemed to go from me to him a responding chord in my soul. When I have stood out in the world, in the streets and in the halls of the people, and borne testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet of the living God, it seemed as though there was an awakening in my whole nature in bearing that testimony, an affinity between me and the prophet whom I never saw, with my natural eyes. I believe that Joseph Smith was one of the mighty that we read about in ancient and, in some places, in modern scripture. He was one of the mighty ones and was reserved to come on the earth in the latter days, in this last dispensation, to be the instrument in the hands of the Father and of the Son, to re-establish the Church of Christ and to introduce into the world principles, the knowledge of which had been lost for ages, and to reveal the word of the Lord especially for this generation, that a people might be prepared for the establishment of the kingdom of God, the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe that he is one of the great and mighty spirits that ministered before the Lord.

The full history of our pre-existent state, any of us, anybody that has been living in the flesh on the earth has not been given to us. The Lord has not been pleased to reveal very much concerning it, but the fact has been made so clear and patent to our minds that we have become established in the faith that we lived before we came here, and, therefore, we shall live after we leave here ; that we are the sons and daughters of that great and mighty Being, who possessed the fullness of intelligence and was the greatest of all the intelligences that existed in that state. He is the Being whom we worship; to him we owe our personal, organized, conscious existence and condition. He begat us : we are his children, and, therefore, we owe full allegiance to him. And we have learned through the revelations of God in the latter days, particularly in the 76th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, that the worlds that have been created have inhabitants and that they are "begotten sons and daughters unto God." No matter who may have been their immediate progenitors, they all center up to the great Eternal Father, Jesus Christ's Father, Jesus Christ's God, and our Father and our God; and when we pray, we pray to him, and to him we owe full allegiance because he is our God and our King and our Creator and our Father. Of course, when I use the term "creator," or "creation," I take the interpretation of the prophet Joseph Smith, who said the term meant organizer, or organization, as the case might be. The term "create" had been used to signify something made out of nothing, and the prophet Joseph dissipated that fallacy while he dwelt with us in the flesh. So we understand that when, the word "create" is used, it means to organize, to bring together existent, eternally existent atoms for the special purpose for which they are organized. Now these are among a great number of truths that the Lord has revealed to us through the prophet Joseph Smith, and we should keep that in mind and remember him, as we should always remember Jesus, the Savior, the Christ, as taught to us this morning by President Lund in his remarks concerning the form used in the Sacrament. We should always remember him, not that we desire to bow down and worship him, but we should honor him in his place, as we should all who are called upon to occupy a similar position succeeding him in the ministry.

I was pleased to hear the testimony of President Smith, this morning, concerning his holding the keys which were revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith and have been handed down to his successors ; and Joseph F. Smith holds them today, as Joseph the prophet held them, and he stands at our head as the President of the Church, and we look to him as the end of controversy. We ought not really to have controversy in our Church, because the revelations of God are so clear and plain to us, if we will read them with an understanding mind and a desire to receive them as they are given. We should not read to find fault or to pick flaws or to make apparent contradictions, but receive them in our souls and not only "receive" but "conceive" the word of life as brother Heber C. Kimball used to teach. Some of our brethren get so anxious to make apparent contradictions that they will take passages of scripture from ancient and from modern writ, and I was going to say, invent, and put them in such a position that they appear to conflict, and then they want the President of the Church to expound the matter to them and to search through the scriptures and point out to them where they can find support for their notions and ideas.

The President alluded to some of these things this morning, and the counsel he gave to us is very pertinent and very necessary at the present time, and if our brethren, and some few of our sisters, perhaps, would quit this quibbling, when they search, when they seek, they will be sure to find. If they are seeking for contradictions, they will find them, but if they are seeking for the word of life, they will find it, and they will rejoice therein, and everything will be clear and plain before their minds. In that I delight, and I rejoice in the gospel of Jesus Christ as it has been revealed to us in these latter days because of its plainness. I am one with the prophet Nephi in this respect. He said, "My soul delighteth in plainness," and this has been a joy to me ever since I first heard the gospel.

When I first learned anything about such a person as Joseph Smith I read about him in a book written by a Frenchman, who was present when Joseph Smith preached to some Indians, and he related the circumstances and there was something in that narration that fascinated me before I heard the gospel preached in the latter days ; and then when I did hear it, that same feeling and spirit entered my soul, and I desired to know more about this Joseph Smith. I thank God that I did learn about him ; I thank God that when I heard the gospel preached, it found a place in my soul, I was prepared for it in that singular and simple way, and ever since that time there is something about the very name of Joseph Smith and his work and mission which thrills me in every part of my nature. I rejoice in bearing testimony, as I have done in many countries and at many times that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet of the living God, that he lived a prophet, that he died — that is, his spirit left his body — as a prophet, that he is still ministering in that capacity where he has gone in a sphere shut out from our gaze, like our former estate is shut out from our vision. But he lives and he will be troubled no more by the tyrants that followed him ; he will be troubled no more with the false reports that were raised against his character ; he is troubled no more with the conflicts of life, for he had to fight up-stream all the time as he struggled along from year to year. But he has gone from the gaze of the world and from our gaze, for a time, and now is working in the world behind the veil, in that vast sphere where there are so many of the children of God who have lived in the flesh and have gone before us. His work is there now, while our work is still here, for a time, on this earth ; and he has left us a legacy in regard to those of our ancestors who did not receive the gospel.

There is a great and glorious work given to the Latter-day Saints, not only to carry or send the gospel to all the nations of the earth, to every nation and kindred and tongue and people, but to labor for the salvation of their dead progenitors. What a mighty work is to be done for them, and how little we know of their actual condition behind the veil ! No doubt what is revealed about the world of spirits is clear and true, so far as it goes. It is plain that when the spirit of man, which is the real personality, leaves the body, that spirit goes where it should go. There is a sort of preliminary judgment. We are told that we go home to the God that gave us life, just as we read in the old scriptures, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it." Not that that means that we go to heaven, as is taught in the Christian world, in the immediate society and presence of the Father, but, we are told, we are consigned either to one part of that spirit world or to another, to the Paradise of God where the good go, where they rest from their toils and sorrows and labors and troubles, from all the evils that beset them through the flesh. Freed from the body they are able to receive further light and intelligence and to use the experience that they have gained for the benefit of one another, and also, like the Savior, for the benefit of those that go to the other part of that great world of spirits, the world where the wicked go and the corrupt. I have often thought it must be an awful time as well as an awful place for the corrupt and wicked and abominable who loved and made a lie, while they dwelt in the flesh, and who committed all kinds of iniquity and corruption, when they are thus gathered together. What a company ! What associations ! What misery there must be among them ! The good are gathered in Paradise, and the wicked are in Hades together.

Well, there is indeed a great field of labor for the sons of God, and perhaps the daughters of God, after they leave the body. They still are in the image of the Father and of the Son, and they have a work to perform in the great plan of human redemption ; for the time is to come when all shall be redeemed who can be redeemed. God is a great economist. Everything that can be saved will be saved, and only that which cannot be saved will be lost. This is because of the operation of eternal principles. After defying the truth and loving lies, fighting against that which they once testified and knew to be true, being obsessed with malice and murder, justice claims them and because of that, they are not in the plan of redemption ; they cannot receive the glory that shall come, even to the corrupt who repent and are raised to the telestial glory. They will not inherit even that glory. Quite a number of our brethren get tangled up about what is said of these "Sons of Perdition." In the 76th Section of the Doctrine and Covenants we are told that all the rest but these sons of perdition shall come forth and be redeemed. That means they shall come forth in one of the three degrees of glory, the celestial or the terrestrial or the telestial. They have an idea that the sons of perdition will not be resurrected, because it says there that "all the rest shall be brought forth."

I want to read to you just one verse from the Doctrine and Covenants that I hope will set that little matter at rest so that there will be no misunderstanding or dispute concerning it. It is in the 88th section, which is a most glorious revelation from God to the prophet Joseph Smith. They are all good, they are all glorious, but there are some more especially so to me, and this is one of them. I regard the 76th section of the Doctrine and Covenants as the most glorious revelation concerning the future condition of mankind that has ever been put into print. I hope you have read it, all of you, and that you still will read it, and that those who have not studied it will study it thoroughly. Now I will not read the whole of this section that relates to the resurrection. You will find it from the 25th to the 31st verses of this 88th section about the celestial glory and the terrestrial glory and the telestial glory as you will also read about them in the 76th section. This is a later revelation. Now, after speaking of those that shall come forth and be quickened by the celestial glory, and then those that shall come forth, being quickened by the terrestrial glory, and the rest who shall receive the telestial glory, it says in the 32nd verse.

"And they who remain shall also be quickened ; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received."

This shows that there are four groups of resurrected beings, those that are quickened by the celestial glory, because they obeyed celestial laws, those who are quickened by the terrestial glory because they received not the gospel in the flesh and yet many of them were honorable people — they shall be quickened by the terrestial glory, and then the rest that remain, the corrupt and the wicked and the abominable, who, after having paid the uttermost farthing, of their debts of sin, are brought forth, they also shall be quickened and receive the telestial glory. But then those that remain, who are they? They are those that are not redeemed into one of these glories. In the due time of the Lord they also shall be quickened, but they shall return to their own place, and that "own place," we are told, is with the devil and his angels, and the height and the extent and the depth and the end of their punishment no man knoweth, for the Lord does not reveal it except to a very few, and then he shuts up the vision he says. So now, brethren, if any of you have got a little tangled up over these passages of scripture, in the 76th section let that pass and take this that I have just read to you, and read that with the other, and you will have the matter all straight.

In these plain and simple things which we have received from God, from the great Eternal Father by revelation through his Prophets, and particularly through the great Prophet of the latter days, Joseph Smith, they certainly ought to place us on a firm foundation and give us rest and peace in our souls. Therein is one of the grand beauties of the Church to which we belong, the doctrines that we have received. We know, we are convinced of them, we are not in any doubt about them if we have received them in the right spirit. They have established themselves in our very being, they are a part of us. We live in them, and they live in us, as ministers of the Lord, setting that which the Lord has revealed for us to do, first in all our labors and duties. I thank the Lord that that ideal was planted in my soul when I received the gospel in my boyhood, that this was the first thing under the sun, above father or mother or wife or children or houses or lands or possessions of any kind that is earthly, the kingdom first, the truth triumphant, the truth before all things, to learn it and to live it.

This has been my desire from the very beginning, and I have tried to carry it out in my life, and therein I have had inexpressable joy and intense satisfaction. The confidence that I have and have felt in regard to this work has been a joy to me so that I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand on the earth in the latter days and bring glory and honor and full reward to all who serve him and keep the commandments which he has given to us, which are the commandments of the Father. I know that these things are true, I haven't any doubt concerning them. In that certainly there is peace, something to rely upon; something dependable, something that doesn't need any quibbling or questioning or doubt or uncertainty, but conviction, the full conviction in my soul of the truth. And I have been able to bear that truth to others and that very certainty that sounded in my voice has carried conviction, thank the Lord, to many others in my travels and labors in the ministry. And this is what we all need, my brethren, the firm and solid conviction in our own souls that we have received the truth and that this priesthood and authority which the Lord has sent to the earth in the latter days through the prophet Joseph Smith is a reality. It is that which the President talked about this morning, the Priesthood after the order of the Son of God, which is without beginning of days or end of years, which existed ages upon ages before this world and others of its kind rolled into being. It is without beginning and without end. It is the power of God. It contains the light of truth. It carries authority to administer in the name of the Lord, and those ministrations, when properly observed and administered, are just as though the Father or the Son or some other great being had ministered them in person. That is the beauty of this authority which the Lord has revealed to us. Now in that we carry with us, wherever we go, the power of God to administer in his name, and it is effectual, and what we do on earth is counted for something in heaven, what we seal on earth is sealed in heaven ; what we loose on earth, when it is properly done, is loosed in heaven; and what is recorded here is recorded there, although the manner of recording has not been told to us.

There is another thing connected with this that we ought to understand fully in our minds, and that is that the time will come, according to the revelations of God, concerning the resurrection, that judgment will be given into the hands of men who hold that priesthood, so that what they do in the judgment will be as though done by the Father or by the Son. John, the apostle, in that beautiful revelation that is placed last in the New Testament, in the 20th chapter, 4th verse, says : "I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus," and so on, "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Judgment was given unto them! What does it mean? It means just what Jesus told the twelve apostles when he was with them in the flesh, that they who remained with him and traveled with him in the regeneration should sit upon twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel; and what the Lord told his twelve disciples on this continent, and they also should receive similar power and authority. And the apostles of old, the apostle Paul particularly, wrote about the saints even judging angels. So judgment is to be given into the hands of men who have received this priesthood, and who have exhibited before God and angels their capacity and the justice and equity and righteousness of decision, when they have had to sit in judgment upon others.

Jesus, the Christ, in giving that beautiful sermon that has been alluded to today, the Sermon on the Mount, in the 7th chapter of Matthew, you can read it, said to the multitude, "Judge not that ye be not judged, for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged, and the measure ye mete out to others shall be measured to you again." But judgment, to a great extent, is given into the hands of certain quorums and councils in this Church. One body to exercise judgment is the bishopric, the bishopric of a ward are appointed and ordained to be judges. A bishop is a common judge in Israel to sit with his counselors in judgment upon transgressors and upon those whose difficulties cannot be settled by the teachers who visit them in their homes. That arbitration power which is given to the teachers is a splendid thing, and it should be used when necessary. I was glad to hear President Smith say this morning he didn't have to call anybody in to settle his difficulties, he settled them himself. Thank the Lord, I have never had to call in teachers or a bishopric to settle any troubles that I have had. I feel like he does. I would rather give a little than want to take it all. I would rather suffer something than to do something that was wrong. But we do have difficulties in the Church, and the Saints should be willing to refer them to good men who go to their homes to teach them. I wish they always did teach when they go to the homes of the members, but we will pass that by. They should call in these good men if they have any difficulty they cannot settle with their neighbors, or with members of their own families, committing it to the judgment of these good, wise men and do what they say is the right thing, even though they may have to, what you would call, sacrifice something. But when this can't be done, satisfactorily, the bishop and his counselors can sit as common judges in Israel, and determine the rights of the conflicting parties, also the duties of men or women who are charged with transgression.

Now, brethren and sisters, what the Savior meant was that you and I, in our capacity as individuals, as members, outside of any official duty imposed upon us, should not sit in judgment upon one another. And yet we do it, and sometimes we say things about one another that we are not justified in saying. Some of our people do sit in judgment, even upon the President of the Church, and find fault with him. Of course, they are only a few, comparatively, but it is annoying to hear anybody talk as some people talk concerning him, and concerning the president of the stake, or the bishop of the ward where they live. It is not our province as members of the Church, to sit in judgment upon one another and call bad names when we reflect upon the acts of people. We have no right, even if we are in official capacity, to form a one-sided judgment. There are two sides to every such question, if not more, always ; and we should hear both, "hear defense before deciding, and a ray of light may gleam, showing thee what filth is hiding underneath the shallow stream." Hear the other side before you begin to find fault, and pass judgment. Do not let us pass judgment upon our fellow creatures, our brothers and sisters, or even people in the world. Let us look into our own souls and find out our own defects, we will find them there if we look for them. He that seeketh findeth, but it depends upon what you are seeking. You can always find something that you are seeking for. If you are seeking for the good, you will find it; if you are seeking for the bad, you will find it, sure enough, if you keep on ; but don't let us sit in judgment upon one another. Forgive one another of all our faults, as the Lord has commanded us, in our hearts, not merely with our lips, but in our hearts, and if we do not forgive one another, in our hearts, the Lord says we commit the greater sin. So when we are called upon to sit in judgment, either in a bishop's court or in a high council, (to which the decisions of the bishop's court may be appealed) if we are members of the high council, just remember what the Lord has said concerning such quorum or council. Every decision of these quorums that are organized must be given in justice, in righteousness in equity, in the fear of the Lord, and with the desire to do what is right, not out of personal feeling. Personal feelings ought to be banished from our souls when we sit in judgment having the right to sit in judgment. The bishop's courts and the high councils have the right to sit in judgment, but it must be reached by testimony, not through any feelings or thoughts we may have in regard to the iniquity of some individual. Sit in judgment in righteousness, according to evidence !

If we were to sit in judgment upon all the rumors that come to us in the President's office, we should have a very poor opinion of a good many men and women in Israel ; but we have to hear both sides and then we don't pretend to take the place of the bishop's court or high council. I want to say that for the benefit of my brothers and sisters who seem to think that the President of the Church should decide on all these little matters of difficulty that come up as in matters of doctrine, and that it is his job to sit in judgment on these matters, and give them a decision, and then back it up by Scripture. The President of this Church doesn't need to back up what he says by ancient Scripture. He has the word of the Lord to us in this dispensation, just as the prophets of old had to the people among whom they lived. Now, brothers and sisters, if you have something against your neighbor, or your neighbor has something against you, try and settle it peaceably if you can, but if not, do not send it up to the First Presidency. Go to the bishop of your ward and get the matter settled by the bishop. But if you are so stubborn and self-willed and so self-opinioned that you think the bishop doesn't know as much as you do, then appeal it up to the high council, and if there is any unrighteousness in the decision of your high council, that can be looked over and examined by the Presidency of the Church, and they can decide what is to be done in the matter, in regard to having a new trial or whatever the case may be ; that belongs to them but not till then. Do not keep writing up to the First Presidency about your little difficulties and trials that can be settled right in your own locality, but get the proper authorities, the local authorities, to attend to them and save us a great deal of trouble.

Now, brethren, men of God, holding the holy priesthood who have the right to sit in judgment, have got to do that in the way that the Lord has appointed. You are not to call names, nor to speak evil of your neighbors. It is right for them to give them a chance to speak in their own defense before you make up a decision in your mind, let alone anything else, and then always do what the spirit of the Lord and the judgment that you receive and the testimony that is presented make clear to you what should be done and do it fearlessly, and in honor and in truth, and the Lord will be with you and good will be the result, and then when the time comes that judgment is to be given to men of God in the world to come, why, it will be the kind of men in whom judgment can be properly vested. They will represent the Father and the Son as they do here on earth. The great judgment that is to come will not be altogether performed by one individual sitting upon a great white throne and passing judgment upon the millions upon millions of the earth's inhabitants. God's house is a house of order, and the Lord will have agents appointed as he has now behind the veil as well as in the flesh, and when the great judgment comes, all will be judged according to their works, and the books will be opened, and the Book of Life will be scanned and the man's acts and the women's acts upon the earth will be disclosed, and we will all confess in our souls that the judgment is just and righteous, because it will be uttered and delivered by one having authority and the seal of God will be upon it.

Now, while we dwell on earth in the flesh, let us take the good counsel that we get from our brethren, and particularly that we had this morning from our President. I enjoyed his remarks to the people. I bear testimony that they were true, and if we will live by those words of God, that were delivered to us this morning, our path will be comparatively a path of peace; the sunshine of the Lord will beam upon our souls; we will have joy and satisfaction and contentment and full reliance, and we will not be shaken. We will stand firmly upon the rock of revelation and God will guide our footsteps in the way of life and by and by we will learn the things that we forgot when we came on the earth in the flesh, and we will retain all the light and truth and experience gained while in mortality, and if we are faithful to the last, we will shine forth in the presence of the Father like the stars of the heavens, and like the sun, forever and ever. And of the increase of our glory and our happiness and our peace and our dominions and our posterity, there will be no end. God help us to attain that great salvation, through Jesus Christ. Amen.

Cite this talkCharles W. Penrose, "A Firm Foundation," 1916 October General Conference, First Day Afternoon Session (1916-10-06). Pulpit Vault, 1916-10-07c-charles-w-penrose-remarks. Authoritative print text from archive.org.Pulpit Vault, edition of 23 September 2026 (commit 4bdc6ac627).