Remarks

I did not intend to occupy any more time in this conference, but there is a subject or two that I feel in duty bound to talk upon, and I hope the Saints will give me their prayers and faith, that I may be enabled to do my duty, in order to arrive at the principles and subject I wish to speak of, I feel disposed to deviate from my general course of testimony in some respects. ¶

There are two powers on the earth and in the midst of the inhabitants of the earth—the power of God and the power of the devil. In our history we have had some very peculiar experiences. When God has had a people on the earth, it matters not in what age, Lucifer, the son of the morning, and the millions of fallen spirits that were cast out of heaven, have warred against God, against Christ, against the work of God, and against the people of God. And they are not backward in doing it in our day and generation. Whenever the Lord set His hand to perform any work, those powers labored to overthrow it. I have a little experience in this direction that I want to refer to. Many of you probably have read the history of the first proclamation of the Gospel in England under the presidency of Heber C. Kimball, in 1837. Just previous to that I crossed Lake Ontario with a man by the name of Russell from Canada into the United States. That man walked the steamer almost day and night, moaning and groaning. What was the matter? He had a class of spirits that stayed with him night and day, distressing him. What he had done that they had power over him I do not know. When a man does his duty and keeps the commandments of God, those spirits have no power over him, although he may be distressed in a measure from their operation. This man went to England, and those spirits went with him. He was with the Apostles there, and while they were holding a conference there he was so troubled with those spirits that Brother Heber C. Kimball and Orson Hyde and the brethren who were there laid hands upon him and cast those evil spirits out of him. When they left him they seized upon Brother Hyde, and he fell to the floor as though he had been knocked on the head with a club. Brother Kimball and the brethren immediately laid hands upon him, and the evil spirits left him. They then fell upon Brother Kimball and tried to overcome him. But the vision of his mind was open and he saw them in the room. They gnashed their teeth at him; but did they overcome him? Brother Kimball held the Apostleship and he stood at the head of that Mission, and God gave him power over those spirits, and they were rebuked and left him. This was the beginning of their labors there. In 1840, when the Apostles were sent to England, we had a similar experience. The history of my travels in Herefordshire, Gloucestershire and Worcestershire is published and known to the Church. After laboring there some eight months, Brothers Heber C. Kimball and George A. Smith invited me to go to London. You all know what kind of men Brothers Kimball and Smith were. They had power and brought a great many into the Church. We three went into the City of London to undertake to open doors in that great city. The first man who opened his doors to receive us was a man by the name of Morgan. The very day we entered that house it was filled with evil spirits, who sought to destroy us. We felt their power day after day. They did not particularly injure us at that time, but we knew they were with us. The incident that I am going to refer to now occurred after Brother Kimball had returned to Manchester. Brother George A. Smith and myself were left there. We sat up one night till about 11 o'clock, talking about the Gospel of Christ, and then went to bed. The room in which we slept was small; there was about three and a half feet between our cots. Those spirits were gathered together in that room and sought to destroy us. They fell upon us with the determination to take our lives. The distress the suffering and the horror that rested upon me I never experienced before nor since. While in this condition a spirit said to me, "Pray to the Lord." Well, a man in that kind of warfare, when he is choking almost to death, is in a peculiar position to pray. Nevertheless I went to praying with all the power I had. I knew we would die unless God opened some door for our deliverance, because we were being choked to death, and I prayed the Lord, in the name of Jesus Christ, to preserve our lives. While I was praying, the door opened and three messengers entered, and the room was filled with light equal to the blazing light of the sun at mid-day. Those messengers were all dressed in robes of immortal beings. Who they were I know not. They laid hands upon me and my companion, and rebuked the evil powers, and we were saved. From that hour to this day, not only our lives were saved, but those powers were rebuked by the angels of God so that no Elder since has been tormented with them in London. ¶

I name this because there is a principle in it. From the day that the Prophet Joseph Smith was called upon by the angel of God and the plates of the Book of Mormon given into his hands, these evil spirits labored for his death, and finally his blood was shed by the power of the devil. You know about that. It is before the heavens and the earth, and has got to be settled for. Those spirits are wherever the Saints of God are, and they will follow this up until He who holds the keys of death and hell binds that old serpent, sets a seal upon him, and shuts him up for a thousand years. These evil spirits are all around us. They follow every Elder of Israel at home and abroad. They tempt me; they tempt you, and will as long as we dwell in the flesh and they have their agency and power. Why? Because they know the Priesthood is here; they know the authority is here to seal blessings upon the heads of the children of men, and to preach the Gospel to the nations of the earth, that they may be prepared for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Knowing this if they can get any power over you and me they will exercise it. ¶

There has been some talk here about myself, and my counselors, and the Twelve Apostles, and the position we hold as leaders of the people. I have been in the Apostleship for fifty-seven years. I have been through all the apostasies in this Church, it may be allowed to use that expression, from the day of the organization of the Twelve Apostles. On one occasion two Apostles came to me while I was in Kirtland, and told me that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet, and that they wanted to put another man in his place—Oliver Cowdery. They wanted to know what I would do about it. Said I, "Every man that lifts his hand against the Prophet of God will go to hell, unless he repents of his sins." Well, about half of them did repent; the others did not, and they lost their crown and glory, and other men have taken their places. ¶

My brethren and sisters, there is something pressing upon my mind that I want to say. We have arrived at a point here with regard to circumstances that it is my duty to take up as the President of the Church. The First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles were never more united as a body than they are today. Our spirits are united. We believe together, we work together, we pray together; and we believe in each other, because we are all trying to do the will of God. This is the case with all of us, with one exception. That exception is Brother Moses Thatcher. A great many people marvel and wonder why something is not done with him. Some have said we were afraid of Moses Thatcher. I am not afraid of Moses Thatcher, nor of any other man who breathes the breath of life, when it comes to a matter of duty. But I am afraid to disobey God, or to not perform any duty in any position that I am called to in the Church. There has been a great deal said with regard to Brother Moses Thatcher, and many have wondered why something was not done about him. Well, I will say that this is a matter that belongs to the Twelve Apostles. He is a member of that quorum, and of course it is their duty to take hold of that work and attend to it until it is settled. But I have felt, as the President of the Church, it is my duty to not let this conference pass without saying something upon this subject. Brother Moses Thatcher has been a very sick man. Preparations have been made by the Twelve Apostles to settle this difficulty with him in council; but he has been in the condition I speak of. What is the difficulty with Brother Thatcher? The difficulty is, he has not been with his quorum in spirit for years. He has not been united with them hardly, I may say, since the death of President Taylor. It is not his declining to sign this declaration of principle that was brought up at the last conference by the leaders of Israel. This is a matter of comparatively small consequence. I say here—and I say the truth—Brother Thatcher has not been in fellowship with us for a series of years. He has not met with his quorum. He has spent days and days in this city, when he was perfectly able to go about and do business, and has not met with them—neither at their sacrament meetings nor other meetings. Now, this cannot remain in this way. As I have said, these evil spirits affect men. There is a spirit affecting him, and not a good spirit either. With regard to his standing with his quorum, he should have met with them and talked these things over; but he has not done it. He has met with them comparatively few times since President Taylor's death. ¶

Brethren and sisters, these are truths. The Apostles know that he has neglected to meet with them at times when he could and should have done so. He has been at difference with them in many things that have transpired. He has been by himself in his labor, and for himself, and not for the Church. Now, I want to say that neither Moses Thatcher nor any other man on the face of the earth can stand in the way of this Church. We have had almost whole quorums of Apostles that have been in the road, and they have had to be moved out of it, because the kingdom of God cannot stop for anybody—for Wilford Woodruff, for Moses Thatcher, or for anybody else. Unless we work with the Saints of God, with the Priesthood of God and with the organization of His Church, we cannot have any power or influence. I make this testimony because it is my duty. I have thought a great deal of Moses Thatcher. I had a good deal to do with his coming into the quorum of the Apostles. I had a great respect for his family. I have for any man that will bear his testimony to the Gospel and kingdom of God. But he has stopped that. He has taken a different course with regard to this, and he occupies that position today. I name this because he is not in a condition to be tried. The Lord's kingdom is going to roll on. If I took a stand against my counselors and against the Twelve Apostles, and we were not united together, I could not go with them. But the Lord is with us, and with His people. Whatever is required at our hands we want to perform it. I hope that the little time we spend here in the flesh, before we go into the valley of the shadow of death, we will pursue a course wherein we will be satisfied when we come to meet the Lord, and Joseph Smith, and the patriarchs and prophets. We will meet these people in the morning of the first resurrection. Many of them have got their resurrected bodies, and those who have not will have their bodies raised from the grave in an immortal condition. Who can sacrifice eternal life, and a part in the first resurrection, to stand with their wives and children in celestial glory, for the honor of this life or to gratify ambition? I cannot afford to do it, neither can you. We will hail Brother Moses Thatcher with every sentiment of our hearts when he will meet with us, unite with us, repent of his wrongdoings, and help carry on the work of God as he should do. Without this, he cannot go with us. ¶

God bless you. I bear testimony to the heavens and the earth that this is the church and kingdom of God. We have got to live our religion and to be united in order to bear off the kingdom and receive those blessings that lie on the other side of the veil for us. I pray that His blessing and spirit may rest, not only on the First Presidency and Apostles and the whole Priesthood and the Saints, but upon Moses Thatcher, that his eyes may be opened to see, his ears to hear, and his heart to comprehend his position and duty before God and man. ¶